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Insurance fraud or parking dent

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Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by Susanne » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:45 am

Dear experts,

First, excuse my English and some flaws or inadequate terms in my question but I'm not a native speaker.

Is it possible to cause the damage depicted in the attached photo by driving backwards and hitting the target car lateral with a bumber?

Image

We doubt this because
  • It is just a single, very fine hairline scratch
  • The scratch is around the car
  • There is no dent or starting point visible
  • The scratch is not on the convex hull of the target vehicle. It starts before the seam/fold and does not stop at the seam/fold. There is no sign of massive force on the seam, no splitering or chipping

Do you think this is possible?

Thanks for your opinion,

Susanne

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by dsharshunskiy » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:42 am

any way you can attach better photos?

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by Susanne » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:26 am

Versicherungsbetrug1.jpg

Versicherungsbetrug2.jpg


Btw. a suspicous witness describes this as a crash with a loud collision ...

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by dsharshunskiy » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:06 am

Susanne,

I can't see the damage in these photos. However, you describe this as a fine hairline scratch without the obvious starting point. It is a bit unusual in my experience to see that from a collision between 2 cars. To give you a better answer more evidence is needed. Photos of the other car would help. A possible inspection of one or both cars may be necessary. I suggest you get you best SIU or appraiser out there and take good photos of both car with measurements. Make sure they measure the scratch at the level of the scratch.

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by Susanne » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:42 am

dsharshunskiy wrote:Susanne,

I can't see the damage in these photos. However, you describe this as a fine hairline scratch without the obvious starting point. It is a bit unusual in my experience to see that from a collision between 2 cars. To give you a better answer more evidence is needed. Photos of the other car would help. A possible inspection of one or both cars may be necessary. I suggest you get you best SIU or appraiser out there and take good photos of both car with measurements. Make sure they measure the scratch at the level of the scratch.


Thank you very much. Almost nobody can see damage on this photo. A very careful examination of the other car brought no corresponding scratch. There is nothing, you can't find nothing.

But it is in general possible to cause such a scratch with a very loud collision? The only "witness" is telling a story about a very loud crash like in a normal accident???

Thanks in advance,

Susanne

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by dsharshunskiy » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:21 pm

But it is in general possible to cause such a scratch with a very loud collision? The only "witness" is telling a story about a very loud crash like in a normal accident???


Susanne,

Hypothetically, 2 cars are in a crash and produce a loud sound when colliding. One car has a hairline scratch and the other has no damage ( I am assuming that any hidden damages have been ruled out). I cannot think of "normal" scenario where that can occur considering that the loud sound is from the crash (contact between 2 cars) in question.

A very careful examination of the other car brought no corresponding scratch


Is there anything on the other car that can even produce a scratch like this? Any protruding sharp edges? Loose parts? Molding? Flares? Can you match cars together at POI? If you find none, then you have your answer. Something had to make contact with that car to produce that scratch.

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by Susanne » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:04 am

dsharshunskiy wrote:
Hypothetically, 2 cars are in a crash and produce a loud sound when colliding. One car has a hairline scratch and the other has no damage ( I am assuming that any hidden damages have been ruled out). I cannot think of "normal" scenario where that can occur considering that the loud sound is from the crash (contact between 2 cars) in question.

Dear Denis,

thank you for your opinion.

dsharshunskiy wrote:Is there anything on the other car that can even produce a scratch like this? Any protruding sharp edges? Loose parts? Molding? Flares? Can you match cars together at POI? If you find none, then you have your answer. Something had to make contact with that car to produce that scratch.


No, there is nothing on the other car. It is just a modern, very broad bumper. There are no loose parts, there is no molding, there are no flares. Nothing!

The scratch on the "target" vehicle is within the bumper area of the other car, but as already mentioned, it is a modern and very broad bumper (> 30 cm / 12 inches). There are also no edges on this bumper, the scratch is in the middle of the bumper area.

How can we proof an insurance fraud?

Thanks a lot!

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by dsharshunskiy » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:44 pm

Susanne,

I would caution you in using such terminology (insurance fraud). If someone thinks that some damage is related and the other party does not think that they caused that same damage, then it is a disagreement and not insurance fraud. I am not saying that that is or not the case here.
In short, insurance fraud is when you intentionally crash or cause damage or file a fake claim in order to collect from the insurance company.
I am not sure what your exposure is? Are they claiming injuries?
Are you an adjuster or an involved party?

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by Chris Borelli » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:42 am

Susanne,

Sorry for the late reply. Although it is my opinion that there would not be any loud noise as a result of this impact, I would not expect there to be any specific research available that would help. I would have to base it upon the absence of any forceful impact or significant engagement between the vehicles and my experience after witnessing numerous minor and major vehicle crash tests.

Chris Borelli
SD Lyons, Inc.

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by JesseDKirk » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:55 am

Is there a chance that your "scratch" is a crack from flexing of the bumper? Especially since you dont have an easily definable start point, the flex in the bumper may have caused the paint to crack. Still, that looks to be such a low speed and minor event that it may not be worth fighting too much over.

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Re: Insurance fraud or parking dent

Post by Susanne » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:53 am

dsharshunskiy wrote:I am not sure what your exposure is? Are they claiming injuries?
Are you an adjuster or an involved party?


We had disputes and conflicts with our neighbour (the witness, a retired person with too much time and no social contacts). He defamed us, he lied about us etc. He occupied public ground therefore we mandated a lawyer. We had no garage and everytime our lawyer tried to solve the conflict we had manipulations on our car(s), for example a flat tire because of a screw, loose log nuts, scratches etc. but we had no proof. The whole neighborhood was tyrannized by this man therefore we had their sympathy.

One party was still neutral and this witness claimed that my man did a hit-and-run accident on their car. A hit-and-run accident is persecuted by the government in our country (with high penalities). Additionally, the witness used to work as a insurance agent and he knows that an insurance will pay without a lot of investigations because the damage was minimal. We just want to know what really happend. We question if it is really possible to hit another car while driving backwards. We are still involved in a lawsuit.


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