2012 Nissan Maxima Estimated MPH on Impact

[woodys]

Hello,
Is it possible to estimate the speed of this 2012 Nissan Maxima on impact? A 2.5-ton Chevy pickup truck pulled out in front of the Maxima, and the Maxima t-boned the side of the pickup truck right in the center side of the pickup. The pickup truck was high off the ground and had no bumper on the side, and it looks like the Maxima hit the pickup truck above the Maxima's bumper. The hood of the Maxima might have even been pushed into the passenger compartment. The police report estimates the speed of the Maxima at 80MPH. Is this too high or about right estimate? I knew the driver, and I would say his style of driving would be around 55MPH. Is this too low? There were no survivors from the crash. No skid marks or skuffs on the road, so it looks like the driver never applied the brakes. However, it looks like the front wheels were turned to the right in an attempt to swerve the car. It must have happened very suddenly. The police made an attempt to read the black box (EDR), but they claimed "corrosion" as the reason for the failed attempt to read the black box. Does anyone know what the police mean by corrosion? I don't believe this Maxima could ever be powered up again to read the black box, so I'm trying to explain to the lawyer and police that the black box has to be removed from the crash Maxima and put in an exemplar vehicle Maxima so the crash data can be read. The black box is under the center console between the two front seats, and the center console is intact and undisturbed. The lawyer wants to put the Maxima and the black box up for salvage. I want the data from the black box, but the lawyer, the heirs of the estate, and the police are not interested in obtaining it. I feel I'm shaking a hornet's nest by trying to get the crash data. Also, are there any other online resources (paid or free) who could analyze the crash pictures to determine MPH? Any help with the questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Update 11/15/2025:
I attached another picture of the Nissan. I was notified by the lawyer that the Nissan was released by the insurance company, and the lawyer signed over the Nissan to the salvage yard immediately after the police issued a statement that the black box was too corroded to download. The Nissan is likely destroyed along with the black box.

===========
Several days later, the lawyer again contacted me with the following information from the police:

"Good evening,
After further analysis of the case file, it appears the XXXXXXXX Vehicle (2012 Nissan Maxima) was in fact downloaded during this investigation.

Unfortunately, at this point though, I’m going to have to ask that you wait until the case report is released (and the investigation if officially closed and approved) so that you can review all of the information in the report, which will hopefully clear up any questions that you or your clients have."
==========

Does this happen often in police crash investigations? Now that the car and black box are likely destroyed, how can the downloaded crash data be authenticated and verified to have come from the Nissan? Is the download just a computer file? Can it be tampered with?

Thanks again for any help.

[mchenrysoftware]

Need you to post up side views (left and right) of the vehicle damage.
See this forum topic:

• HELP! If YOU or Someone You Know Has Been in a Crash!

Some additional photos will help to determine whether the frontal structure was fully impacted and/or mainly underride damage.
It appears that only partial bumper engagement.
Are there any scene photos? i would hope and expect due to fatalities that there are A LOT more photos of the vehicles at the scene and later?
and a full investigation report?

I would suggest you see about getting a more experienced local crash reconstruction person who is an expert at EDR reading to try to read the EDR.
There does not appear to be any reason that it would have corrosion? (unless a flood car resale?)
Not to second guess the police investigator who tried to read it but having a 2nd opinion is always best when an unsuccessful attempt is made to read EDR data.

[woodys]

Hello, the lawyer used two different cameras to photograph the car. One camera produced very low-resolution pictures, and the other produced decent resolution pictures. Most of the pictures are of the interior. I attached an additional picture of the other side. I live a thousand miles away from where the accident occurred, so I had to rely on the lawyer for everything. The police are only in contact with the lawyer, and the lawyer said it is his responsibility to protect the estate and wants me to drop it. I believe the Nissan is now destroyed. It was destroyed quickly without my consent. To my knowledge, the Nissan has never suffered flood damage, but it has been sitting in the salvage yard with all windows missing for months. The center console appears undisturbed in the attached photo so the black box should have been protected. Now after the car and black box have likely been destroyed, the police claim to have downloaded the crash data. See above in edited post.

Does cause of death provide any indication of the speed on impact? Not sure if the hood of the car was pushed into the passenger compartment.

Cause of death from Death Certificates
Nissan Driver:
Blunt Traumatic Injuries of the head, neck, and torso.

Nissan passenger:
Complete Craniocervical Dislocation
Blunt Trauma of the head and neck


Thanks for the help.

[mchenrysoftware]

first - vehicle destroyed...maybe...
Unlike in the movies most salvage yards retain the vehicle for parts before crunching them since from rear compartment back all probably good for parts?
AND
FYI in several cases in California an expert i know was able to trace the VIN to a salvage yard and go to it and recover the EDR from the vehicle!
sooooooo...
look into that!

AND
Based on the injuries it appears it was definitely the Maxima underrode the side of the lifted truck and then together? the two vehicles both moved across the intersection and struck something else? curb? tree? telephone post?
The injuries 'blunt trauma to head and neck' appear to indicate an underride since the Maxima had airbags, which should have deployed, and would have provided some protection from blunt force trauma (unless the hood etc came in AFTER/during deployment and broke through the airbags?)
Get the police FATALITY report and see if they made any measurements and/or took photos or videos of the crash scene and vehicles after towed to storage while their investigation ensued (since fatalities MUST be thoroughly investigated and documented or so in most jurisdictions.)

And 1 last item:
You say "the lawyer said it is his responsibility to protect the estate and wants me to drop it"
wtf?
why?
if the vehicle WASN'T speeding and that can be proven from further investigation then why wouldn't that protect the estate MORE than simply blindly accepting the police results and laying all blame on the Maxima?
And the police may be correct
but
one should ALWAYS double check etc

Something doesn't smell right with what 'the lawyer' says...
who's estate is he/she trying to protect?

[mchenrysoftware]

UPDATE: i didn't realize aside from posting the additional photo you also posted more information.
I agree with the lawyer
let the police complete the report
Get a copy of the complete EDR report by the police that they downloaded
and review the photos and any calculations they did etc etc
and then
if some discrepancies
Get the VIN and do some digging to see what salvage yard they released it to and then contact some local (to where the crash happened since you say you're thousands of miles away) engineering or crash investigation firm to see if they will go to the salvage yard and see if they can locate the vehicle and if so, read & retrieve the EDR.

[woodys]

Hello,
Found these pictures of the Nissan Maxima and pickup truck online. Can they be used to determine if the Nissan Maxima was traveling at 55mph or 80mph on impact? The police report estimates the Nissan Maxima was traveling at 80 mph, but I knew the driver, and he usually did 55mph in a 45 mph speed zone. Both the driver and passenger of the Nissan Maxima were killed in the accident, but the driver of the pickup truck was declared dead by all the lawyers and the insurance company, but somehow returned to life after the two vehicles were sold for salvage. It was reported that no skid marks or ABS scuffs were found, so it looks like the Nissan Maxima hit without any braking. There was a mad rush to destroy the Nissan Maxima and prevent me from taking possession of the car and having an independent expert examine the car. The black box data of the Nissan Maxima remains elusive.

Thanks for any help.

dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/z8kowxw0 ... 86pyu&dl=0

[mchenrysoftware]

First i would suggest you work with a local crash reconstruction expert to help you with this since couple items seem to need investigation:

From the (unscaled scene diagram...(posted below it was in the link you just sent)

• provide a scale on the diagram like lane widths or something to scale properly)

Using rough estimate weights for the two vehicles

• PU truck ~4800 + 200 occupant = 5000 lbs?,
• Maxima ~3600 + 400 for 2 occupants?=4000 lbs...
• need model year/VINs and any additional approximate payload
• like was there anything in PU truck, etc) to get better weight estimates?

Using that and this is very rough run though provides you some initial 'talking points'...

Doing a simple momentum analysis (which is probably what the police did)
It all depends on the 'post impact drag factor' and post impact distances traveled (and rotations)

• The PU probably rode up onto and with thrr Maxima for some distance and than rolled off
• photos of the scene post impact would provide ability to determine how much each vehicle rotated
• since a rotating vehicle requires less speed than a sliding sideways vehicle,
• one vehicle seems to 'run out' (the Maxima) longitudinally (but with some drag on front wheels)
• The diagram also indicates the PU truck rode on top of the Maxima (so NO drag) and then rolled off and over to POR which is generally a 0.4 to 0.5 drag factor,
  • question is: what did they use?

if they assumed drag

• Drag is the wheel drag
  • any wheels locked or impeded to rotation?
  • Then multiply times the coefficient of the roadway (.7 to .9? depending on if traffic worn
    • So for example IF both front wheels of the Maxima locked, as in unable to rotate, that's ~0.5 drag then multiply times friction (lets use 0.8) so effective drag is 0.4
• But then how much did it rotate?
  • Since you need to consider the approximate rotating vehicle % drag factor?
• In consideration of many/all of these aforementioned items, a first ballpark calculations reveal:
  • Did they incorrectly use an effective drag of 1.0 from Impact to POR for the Maxima to get 80 MPH Impact speed??
    Since
    • .7 effective drag factor the speeds come up ~65 mph for Maxima, 29 mph for PU truck
    • if 0.5 effective drag factor then speeds more like ~55 mph for maxima, ~24 mph for PU truck
    • if 0.3 effective drag factor then speeds come up ~43 mph for Maxima, ~19 mph for PU

Which also brings up question:

• the PU had a stop sign? what was the distance from stop sign to area of Impact? (looks like ~40 feet?)
• Police indicate 'was either slowing or stopped at the stopbar", how determined since impact speed must have been higher than 'stopped' but they didn't include that!
• If PU truck did rolling stop or ran the stop sign then 'contributory negligence' IF the Maxima speeding, BUT as shown above the Maxima may NOT have been speeding!
• What is the required PU acceleration the police calculated for the PU turck? and/or does it indicate a rolling stop or NO stop at the stop sign?

Other consideration:

• terrain variation, was it sloped
• any scene photos, measurements?
• median they came to rest on, curb which impeded travel?

These items can help explain how the police may have assumed Maxima at 65+ mph BUT what did they calculate for the PU?

[woodys]

D-2 is Nissan Maxima Driver
D-1 is Pickup Truck Driver

Bizarre happenings in this case:
1. D-2 Estate lawyer declares and verifies pickup truck driver (D-1) is dead. But several months later, the driver of the pickup truck returns to life after the two vehicles involved in the accident have been sold for salvage. Looks like the Nissan Maxima's black box was in the car when it was sold for salvage.

2. D-2 Estate lawyer gives me his word I can take possession of the Nissan Maxima, and its black box will be FedExed to me. But in a mad rush, the estate lawyer transfers title of the Nissan Maxima and black box to the salvage yard without even notifying me.

3. D-2 Estate lawyer tells me the black box data from the Nissan Maxima was successfully downloaded and will be provided to me by police when the final report is released. I only discovered after the police homicide report was released that the police indicate the black box for the Nissan Maxima was never downloaded.

4. D-2 Estate lawyer tells me no homicide report will be provided to me. A kind and very helpful person on this forum helped me obtain the homicide report, and the report puts 100 percent blame for the accident on the driver of the Nissan Maxima (D-2) and, by using an advanced formula, estimates the speed of the Nissan Maxima at 96 to 98 mph in a 45-mph speed zone.

Homicide Report Conclusion:
D-2 (Nissan Maxima) was solely responsible for the damages to V-1 (Pickup Truck) and V-2 and the injuries to D-1, and the untimely death of O-1 (Nissan Maxima Passenger) and himself.

Just wondering if anyone who is familiar with this advanced reconstruction formula could verify if the estimate of the Nissan Maxima traveling between 96 and 98 mph in 45 mph speed Zone is correct.

"speed formula1of2.jpg" and "speed formula2of2.jpg" files located in Dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/z8kowxw0 ... 86pyu&dl=0


I drove many times with the driver of the Nissan Maxima and never witnessed him drive over 60 mph in a 45-mph speed zone. The driver of the Nissan Maxima was on his daily route to/from work. Hard to believe a Nissan Maxima tearing down the road at almost 100 mph in a 45-mph speed zone would not get occasionally stopped by police and ticketed or arrested. The Nissan Maxima took the route to/from work for years. The accident occurred just after 5 pm on a workday.

Not sure if the advanced reconstruction formula calculations are correct or if a cover-up took place.

Thanks for any help.